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Arian misogyny

Finally!  JW's knocked on my door this morning.  First time ever.  An older guy and a younger Polish woman.

So I threw some Gen 19:24 shapes their way. "To which Jehovah are you witnessing, the LORD out of the heavens or the LORD on the earth?"

The woman seemed quite interested.  The man said "Trinity?  Rubbish.  Paul refutes the trinity in 1 Corinthians 11:3."  So we went to 1 Corinthians 11:3

But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.

"How does this refute the trinity?" I ask.

"Well," he explains, "God is the head over Christ which means Christ is less than God."

I say "So the Father is the head of Christ the way I'm the head of my wife?"

"That's right"

"Let me ask you, Is my wife less of a human being than me?"

"Yes" said the man.  "N.." said the woman and then changed it to a faltering yes.

I check I've heard them right.  "So my wife is less of a human being than me?"

"Well," reasons the man, "you make the decisions.  You're in charge."

"Mmmm and so I'm a greater being than my wife?"

"That's right" said the man.  The woman frowns.

I turn to her and say "You realise you're in a cult don't you."

The man grabs her by the arm and they start to make their escape.

"Keep reading the bible and keep thinking about marriage," I call to her as they move down the street.  "You know women are equal to men... AND JESUS IS EQUAL TO GOD!"

Don't think they'll be back any time soon.

But it goes to show that Arians are misogynists whatever the PC gloss.  And of course misogynists are Arians, whatever the Christian gloss.

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0 thoughts on “Arian misogyny

  1. Dev

    i think i remember in London... i was just going through John 1 and some stuff.. also getting to Gen 19

    then they brought up the Jesus becoming king in 1914 - i was so stunned that i didn't know what to say...

  2. Heather

    Glen,

    I do hope your encounter makes a difference. The JW cult has such a strong hold on its members.

    A couple years ago, I was contemplating the passage in 2 Timothy 3 which includes the warning about men ...

    having a form of godliness, but denying the power of it; even turn away from these.
    For of these are those who creep into houses and lead captive silly women loaded with sins, led away with different kinds of lusts,
    ever learning and never able to come to the full knowledge of the truth.

    and, knowing I tend to be rather gullible, became worried that I might be one of "those" women. So, I begged the Lord, and pestered my husband for answers.
    The day after I voiced my concern to Craig, the Lord deposited two JW ladies on my doorstep. Both of them had defected from Christian sects. We conversed for about half an hour about who Jesus is and I got a picture of what it means to be "always learning" while ever missing the truth :(

    God used the fact that JW's are pretty active in our area to answer another burning question I had more recently. I may need to look more closely your "mysogeny" perspective, as there seem to be a disproportionate number of women caught in this cult.

  3. No Longer Anonymous

    If JWs ever do knock on anyone's door - please, please do let them in and please do engage with them.

    It really saddens me that many JWs have the view that Christians aren't really interested in reading the Bible. One JW I talked to (who had grown up in a Catholic home) said "the first time I started reading the Bible was with JWs". It's sad that they have that view but you can see how they think that.

    Many JWs call where I live and we invite them in on the basis that we'll discuss our respective theologies from the Bible (there is enough even in the distorted New World Translation to show the truth of the Trinity) - i.e. they won't show me watchtower and I won't show them Christian literature.

    Also, everything comes back to their view of Jesus. Once, during a long discussion on the Doctrine of the Last Things, my wife wisely commented that it all turns on the fact that they had a different view from us about what Immanuel means - i.e. what does God being with us look like.

  4. dave

    I love this.
    The last time we had the JWs round we ended up in the end of Revelation and on Immanuel - their "gospel" was so weak - so unattractive, so lifeless - "God symbolically with us" was the best they could do. v.sad.

  5. Glen

    good points anonymous. If I could have, I would have invited them in myself, but unfortunately this had to be quick.

    I mainly shared this to draw the links between trinity and gender. But the more I reflect on this incident and on the post the more I'm thinking we're (I'm) too quick to share and to rejoice in short bursts of hand-to-hand evangelistic combat. The quick riposte blogs well but I'm not trying to hold this up as a strategy for how to engage the cults.

  6. Missy

    Glen, I said hero because you said some important things. I was recently "courted" by a JW husband and wife. The wife visited me several times alone, but once I began to bring up some contradictory scripture (very clumsily) the husband began to come with her again. I was intimidated by him and began to hide when they'd appear. They stopped coming. I was a coward.

  7. Heather

    I used regularly to pretend we were not home. "Cowardly" is probably the best description of my behavior. When dealing with these people, it is so important to be well grounded in Scripture (I was not) and understand the Greek indefinite article "loophole" they think they've found so as to make Jesus into "a god".

    When I was talking to the two ladies that I let in, I noticed they were really good at consulting their little study companion book in order to answer my questions and it was very illuminating to hear them admit that they believe the Bible ought to make complete intellectual sense to the reader. What they meant is that the supernatural aspect of the trinity is not easily understood, but making Jesus less than God makes the straightforward reading easier to swallow.

    When I mentioned a couple passages that reference Jesus' claim to be I AM, the "leader" nodded vigorously and thumbed through her study guide book while saying "m-hm, mhm-m-hm."

    In many ways, a Jehovah's Witness reading of the Bible leaves them in the dark just as much as an atheist's reading of it. Only, instead of completely rejecting Scripture, they've altered it to fit a religiously disposed mindset.

    Seriously, if you decide to engage, be aware of the heavy spiritual oppression that covers these people. Pray that the Lord directs your words so that they are able to hear the Truth. I think a lot of them come from within the Christian culture and are, to a degree, more hardened against the Gospel than many atheists who have never run in religious circles.

  8. Glen

    Hi Missy and Heather - I'd never appreciated this side of JWs before. Your stories are eye-openers to me!

    And hey David! Sorry, just fished you out of spam. You English - can't string a sentence together without it sounding like a spambot! ;-)

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