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More on union

Some new Mike Reeves talks on union with Christ.

Some talks by Mark Garcia also on union (haven't heard them yet but they've been recommended by Dave K)

UPDATE:  Dave also recommends these by Richard Gaffin (though he hasn't heard all of them)

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0 thoughts on “More on union

  1. Matt

    Hi Glen,
    Wondering if you've listened to the third of the talks by Mike Reeves from the theology network website. I was wanted to check if I'd understood something he said!
    I think he was saying (in relation to the New Perspectives on Paul) that we need to consider "the righteousness of God" in a trinitarian way. Add into that our union with Christ.
    My question is does that mean justification and our receiving the righteousness of God are a solely intra-trinitarian movement that we receive the benefit of because of union with Christ?
    Another related question would be that when Mike emphasised that we were clothed with an alien righteousness (and praise God for that) I was troubled because of the disjunct between the internal corruption of sin and the external righteousness of God in Christ. Yet doesn't God save our inside too, giving us a new heart with new desires?
    Thanks Glen, (your Men's Breakfast talk was great stuff, btw!) Matt

  2. Glen

    Just briefly (but do come back to me on it)...

    The righteousness we receive from Christ is His earned/acquired righteousness from His incarnate life of obedience. The eastern orthodox view is that Christ just has an essential righteousness as the Word which infuses into us. Calvin was right to say that the Son came born of a woman, born under law to redeem those born under law (Gal 4:4). He works an utterly human righteousness for us, in our place as representative Man.

    So we are brought into an intra-trinitarian dynamic but only because that intra-trinitarian life has been already opened out in incarnation. We share by the Spirit in the incarnate Son's fellowship with the Father.

    And the disjunct you're talking about... man. That's just the battle of the Christian life if you ask me. (I reckon Romans 7 is just straightforwardly *us*).

    I sketched out some very basic thoughts on it recently, here:

    https://christthetruth.net/2009/10/26/i-in-christ-christ-in-me/

    and

    https://christthetruth.net/2009/07/27/i-am-in-christ-and-christ-is-in-me/

  3. Matt

    Just seen that'd you'd responded! Yes, that is helpful.

    Though I'm now a bit confused about how that would connect up with "but now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested".

    Are you saying it is a righteousness that comes from obedience to the will of the Father as something distinct from a righteous that comes from fully obeying the law of God?

  4. Glen

    Hey Matt - hope I'm getting the thrust of what you're asking...

    Are you asking: "How do you co-ordinate talk of 'Christ being born under law to work salvation' and Romans 1 where it says salvation comes 'apart from law'?"

    Is that basically the question? If so, I'd say this...

    When it comes to the object of our faith, Law and Christ are utterly mutually exclusive. Law leads to death. Christ leads to life. The righteousness of God is revealed to us apart from law (meaning apart from our relationship to the law). It's freely given in Christ.

    But Christ has a relationship to the law. He fulfils it.

    And now, in Him, we are said to have fulfilled the righteous requirement of the law (Rom 8:1-4). But this is not through our relationship to the law (obedience), but through our relationship to Christ (faith).

    I'm not drawing any distinction between Christ's 'obeying the will of the Father' and Christ's 'obeying the law of God'. The distinction lies between *Christ* doing the law (which, remember, includes the sacrificial system - making atonement etc) and us. He fulfils the law in order to offer us a salvation that is apart from law. (cf Heb 10:1-10)

    Does that engage with your question?

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